Me, I'm happiest when my long-range hunting bullet impacts at somewhere between 2,000 fps and 2,800 fps. The 7mm Magnum has higher powder loads to push the bullet faster, flatter, farther, and is more accurate than the .308 at long distances. 7mm-08 Remington Back in 1958, a certain 7mm/308 Winchester wildcat round was brought into development as its name hints, people developed this round by just necking down a standard .308 Winchester to have .284 bullets (7mm). In exchange for what advantage, 84 foot-pounds less punch? Not to quible about the accuracy potential of the 308 but the Sinclair Fullbore National is a mixed mid range, palma and long range aggregate. Subscriber Services. It is versitile, flat shooting, has reasonable recoil, and with the effeciency of its projectiles, offers downrange energy rivaling many of the .300 Win loads. Join Yahoo Answers and get 100 points today. is it’s slightly reduced recoil. The main difference between 6.5 and 7mm-08 ammunition revolves around velocity, penetration power, and target type. No company is better at core-to-jacket bonding than Nosler, and the AccuBond Long Range is a bonded bullet. If I want sub-half-MOA accuracy and extremely high BCs for maximum reach, the Hornady ELD-X or Berger VLD Hunting. Barnes LRX. I've shot my best-ever groups at 200 yards and at 1,000 yards with the 175-grain 7mm version. 1. Yes, the 7mm-08 defeats 308. Typically termed ballistic coefficient (BC), a bullet's ability to flow through the air with minimum friction is critical. The Barnes LRX is a homogeneous bullet, meaning it's made out of one solid material, which happens to be copper. Like the .308 round, this bullet stays supersonic out to and past 500 yards. The 7mm-08 Remington cartridge was introduced in the 1980s. I regularly compete (successfully, for the most part) out to 600 and 1,000 yards in CMP-type service-rifle matches and long-range cross-country competitions. It's a quick-and-dirty look at four different bullets specifically pegged for long-distant work. Starting in 2017, shooters were... Keith Feeley of Tactical Solutions sat down with Michael Bane at SHOT Show 2018 to talk about the new X-Ring Takedown SBR .22LR rifle. Hornady is actually rather modest and advertises a velocity performance window ranging from 1,600 fps to 3,000 fps. vs 6.5 Creedmoor — Cartridge Clash, Tactical Solutions Introduces New X-Ring Takedown SBR Rifle, Ruger Launches New American Rifle Predator in 6.5 Grendel, Steyr Arms Announces Sniper Rifle in 6.5mm Creedmoor, Black Hills Evolution of Rifle Cartridge: .308 Win. David Fortier talks with Jeff Hoffman of Black Hills Ammunition about the evolution of the .308 Win. If you seeking special discount you may need to searching when special time come or holidays. For decades, things were quiet on the .22 centerfire front. Both use a .30 caliber bullet. Although I typically disagree with long-range hunting ethics, I've shot game at extreme distances because, as an investigative journalist in the shooting and hunting field, I believe that it's my responsibility to know personally the subjects of which I write. Conclusion: 7mm-08 for long range target shooting. It has only one weakness: Since copper has less mass than lead, LRX bullets are inherently lighter than a lead-cored bullet of the same size, resulting in somewhat lower BCs. Advantage of the .308, it' s a short action cartridge suitable for most big game in North American, ammunition is usually less expensive and readily available even in most small gun shops. Always. What sniper wants 4 more inches of drop and drift at 600 yards? Match. Last, and most difficult to achieve, is a wide impact performance window. On impact, the bullet tends to grenade, the nose riveting rearward and the soft lead core blowing out the thin-jacketed base. Advantage to the 7mm Mag, it's a great long range cartridge, disadvantage it cost more for ammunition. Additionally, if some or all of those four petals shear off, they become satellite projectiles and wreak their own share of havoc. (Standard-BC bullets don't experience the phenomenon because they don't maintain super speeds long enough.) Gunsite's Ed Head reviews the Ruger American/Robar Scout Rifle. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7mm-08_Remington. See also http://www.6mmbr.com/7mm284.html#7mm08; article 1/3 of the way down on 7mm-08.) What about impact performance? All of the .308 rounds are generating between 20 and 23.5ft.lbs of recoil energy while the 7mm-08 rounds fall within a … It's just that the 7mm-08 Remington a more ballistically efficient cartridge.Perhaps I should apologize for pointing this out so often (like in this blog. I've had Weatherby and multiple custom rifle makers tell me that the Barnes bullet is their go-to when qualifying rifles for an accuracy guarantee. Because the 7mm shoots the lighter bullets at higher velocities, it is better suited to the law enforcment arena than the .300. What you give up by going with the 7-08 is a greater variety of factory loads in .308, the superior sectional density (hunting, not long range shooting advantage) of it, the much greater variety of actual bullets (if you reload), and the much cheaper cost of bargain and military surplus plinking ammo. Surely, there will be those that disagree with me and who can provide anecdotal tales to support their opinions on long-range hunting. The 6.5 Creedmoor is built for long-range shooting and is compatible with short-action firearms. All Rights Reserved. Still. It was devised by necking down the .308 Winchester caliber’s neck, in order for the overall bullet to have a smaller diameter. http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f26/7mm08-v... http://www.fieldandstream.com/forums/guns/rifles/7... Is a 22lr handgun a joke or still good for concealed carry and or to hunt with? Ideally, a bullet will expand fully and penetrate deeply at very low velocities, making it capable of killing cleanly when long-range hunting, yet won't fragment into nothing and fail to penetrate at very close-range, high-velocity impacts. Typing your keyword like 308 Rifle For Long Range Shooting And 7mm 08 Vs 308 Rifle 308 Rifle For Long Range Shooting And 7mm 08 Vs 308 Rifle Reviews : You finding where to buy 308 Rifle For Long Range Shooting And 7mm 08 Vs 308 Rifle for cheap best price. One weakness plagues the VLD in long-range hunting, and that's the lack of penetration when penetration is really needed. 7.62x54R is marginally bigger, at .311 vs. .308, but this is really not significant in the bigger picture. As for me, my opinions are the result of thousands of handloads built and fired, commonly to distances of 1,200 yards or more. would you feel comfortable in bear country with a 5.56 loaded with green tip ammo? Though the differences between them (.243 vs 308 vs 7mm-08) are significant in many respects, they’re all suitable for a pretty big range of hunting tasks. However, it still penetrates adequately, and it always kills quickly. Aerodynamics is another. I can not decide whether to buy a 6.5 Creedmoor, 7mm-08, or .308. Basically, Remington intended the caliber to be able to provide lesser recoil than a .308 while still being large and powerful enough to kill wild North American game effectively at long distances. What was the main appeal of the 7mm at the time? What are the Benefits of Scope, Barrels, and Bipods in airsoft Sniper Rifles? The Berger VLD Hunting bullet is, without doubt, the most popular and most controversial "long-range hunting" projectile available. It will expand reliably down to 1,600 fps or a bit less and up to, well, however fast you want to shoot it — and that's where the real magic happens. While the round was introduced to the hunting world in 1952, it was adopted by NATO two years later as the 7.62x51mm round. (See http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f26/7mm08-v... on this. While there is some variability in the amount of recoil within each cartridge, both generate a substantial amount that can cause flinching when firing and throw off a shot. Advertised BC numbers for the ABLR are high. Do you like hunting? But except for the last, the rest are really all-around and hunting advantages. If you are a reloader it can easily outshoot the .308 because of the bullet availability. With little or no shank left to penetrate deeply, the fragments dump 100 percent of the energy carried by the bullet into the wound, turning internals into scrambled eggs. Like all 7mms, they can fire bullets as light as 100-grains and as heavy as 180-grains. However, I've personally struggled to achieve that level of accuracy in the handloading I've done, and I've tried a lot. If hitting a TARGET at the end of a long range shot is the goal then the 7mm-08 has the advantage with its superior ballistic coefficient. The… It was originally a match bullet and a very good one. Aerodynamics suffer. Scott O'Brien from Steyr Arms sat down with Michael Bane at SHOT Show 2018 to take a look at Steyr's new tactical heavy barrel sniper rifle in 6.5mm Creedmoor. The VLD became a long-range hunting bullet when some erudite soul discovered that it absolutely pounds thin-skinned, deer-size game. That tells you all you need to know about its accuracy potential, but I'll add this: the VLD Hunting is probably the easiest of all four of the bullets featured here to get to shoot well, meaning it's very tunable and responds exceptionally well to careful handloading. Broadening the velocity window within which a bullet will expand yet hold together is every hunting-bullet company's holy grail. My 7mm Rem Mag has less recoil than my 30-06, but it has a bull barrel so it is also heavier. At long range, the 7mm Magnum bullet will have more knock down power than the .308 and will have more shoulder recoil (sometimes much more recoil) depending upon the loads (amount of powder and weight of the bullet slug to be shot). To get started, click the link below to visit mymagnow.com and learn how to access your digital magazine. Our favorite range round for the .30-06 falls on the Federal 168gr Gold Medal Sierra Matchking. Plus bonding — being another step in the bullet-building process — unavoidably introduces variation. I am looking for something that can give me a good ballistic coefficient, barrel life, accuracy both at 200 and 1000 yards, twist rate, and enough power down range. All RifleShooter subscribers now have digital access to their magazine content. Witness: Vehicle blared warning before Nashville blast, CDC: U.S. to require negative tests for U.K. passengers, 40 million Americans could be evicted in 2021, Infamous ‘Club Kid Killer’ dead at 54, Mom with COVID delivered baby she couldn't hold, Michael Jackson's Neverland Ranch finds a buyer, Legendary Celtics star K.C. As such the hit rates are pumped up by the 300, 500 yard and palma stages. The 7mm Rem mag cartridge like the 308 and 30-06is widely available. Very high. I agree that the ballistic curve is flatter for the 7mm-08 over the .308 and that it retains speed, therefore energy, farther downrange. I'm a fan of the 7mm. It also offers very good BCs. Recoil is a bitch and you'll need a brake which will make an already loud round much louder. Rather, the core is of a relatively strong lead/antimony alloy to prevent excess fragmentation, and it is mechanically locked to the jacket via Hornady's traditional Interlock system. Where the LRX really shines is bullet integrity. .17-Caliber Reloading Data and History for 5 Cartridges, .45-70 vs .450 Bushmaster — Cartridge Clash, Berger Long Range Hybrid Target Bullet Review, .25-06 Rem. Buy Reviews On A 7mm Vs A 308 Rifle And Ruger 308 Precision Rifle Long Range Scope Reviews On A 7mm Vs A 308 Rifle And Ruger 308 Precision Rifle Long Range Scop Get a good hunting rifle chambered in the cartridge that you think fits your needs the best, learn to shoot it well, use quality bullets, and you’ll be all set for most hunting situations. Interestingly, when a polymer-tipped, high-BC bullet is fired at high velocities — let's say over 2,800 fps — it builds excessive heat in its tip, and the tip begins to erode. And the 308 Win. There are .284 bullets in the 130 and 140 grain range that have much higher ballistic coefficients than the same weight bullets in 30 caliber. Finally, the difficulty in manufacturing thick jackets with perfect consistency also challenges accuracy. The .308 comes closer to 7mm-08 trajectories with heavier bullets, but at the cost of increased recoil over the 7mm cartridge. Yet such a bullet is very, very difficult to engineer, let alone produce, especially to the levels of consistency that enable match-winning accuracy. The 7mm Rem Mag is a Long Action cartridge. The cost of 7MM Ultra Mag ammo, which is a really hot round is costly. The ELD-X's core is not bonded to the jacket, because engineers couldn't achieve satisfactory levels of accuracy when they began bonding prototypes. The Barnes LRX is a homogeneous bullet, meaning it's made out of one solid material, which happens to be copper. In alphabetical order, here are four great purpose-built long-range hunting bullets available today. OSG's Lynn Burkhead and Ruger's Matt WIlson kick off SHOT Show 2018 by taking a look at the Ruger Predator. I agree that the ballistic curve is flatter for the 7mm-08 over the .308 and that it retains speed, therefore energy, farther downrange. Practical rifle marksmanship depends on following these five fundamentals. Without doubt, the bullets will shoot superbly out of the right rifle/handload combination, but for me the ABLR is not an easy-accuracy projectile. Nosler suggests that the ABLR will perform all the way from 1,300 fps up to 3,200 fps. My creed is to be the best rifleman I possibly can, so that I can ethically make long, challenging shots when called upon. While assessing different cartridges, you could have a general idea about their characteristics if you carefully research their development history. Depends on the situation. They both achieve half-MOA accuracy. 300 Win Mag vs 338 Lapua vs 338 Win Mag: Picking The Right Heavy Hitter In short, like the 7mm Rem Mag, the .300 Win Mag is an excellent cartridge that packs more performance than the .30-06 … They are really very similar. Long range shooters prefer the 7mm-08 for the reasons in my first sentence. If I want a long-range hunting bullet that will provide adequate, predictable terminal performance from 10 yards to 1,000 yards, the Hornady ELD-X or Nosler AccuBond, whichever shoots better through my rifle. Nothing personal against the 308 Winchester. |   Aoudad sheep shot at 641 yards with a Hornady ELD-X bullet. In short, I find the 7mm Rem Mag to be an excellent all around hunting cartridge with a lot of potential in the long range competition scene as well. Here is a comparision I did back when I was making a similar decision. It's not uncommon for very accomplished, meticulous handloaders to achieve legitimate half-MOA accuracy from their precision rifles (legitimate meaning repeatable; they can produce such groups on demand), but the Berger will occasionally provide consistent quarter-MOA accuracy in a very good rifle. The .243 is a great youth cartridge, but you are limited on … The Hornady ELD-X is the newest of all the bullet designs, and it is very good indeed. Thus between the muzzle and the distance given as the MPBR, the bullet never strays more than 3 inches above or below the line of sight (1.5 inches for varmint loads). The 6.5 Creedmoor is the offspring of the .30 T/C cartridge—which itself was a shortened .308—and offers a wonderful low-recoil experience with the capability of being a long-range cartridge that will fulfill the needs of almost all shooters. The 7mm Rem Magis a better caliber that offers a lot of bullet weights and types. So, accuracy is superb, and BC numbers are both enviable and dependable. scorches past the 6.5 Creedmoor in terms of sheer speed, but in terms of rifle... Give a Gift   In comparison, the 7mm-08 Remington gives an … The author takes stock of rimfire rifles he's known and loved. To bond a bullet, typically the core must be pure lead or a quite-soft alloy, so the ABLR's core is soft and may "smear" off the front of the expanding mushroom-shape but it will never separate from the jacket. Even if the four copper "petals" that expand outward and roll back into the classic mushroom shape on impact shear off of the main shank, it's impossible to batter that shank too small to penetrate. Recommendation:The 7mm is recommended for military applications out to 1000+ meters. It has only one weakness: Since copper has less mass than lead, LRX bullets are inherently lighter than a lead-cored bullet of the same size, resulting in somewhat … From left to right: Hornady ELD-X, Nosler ABLR, Berger VLD Hunting and Barnes LRX. Richard Mann tries to defend his beloved 308 Winchester against the ballistically superior 7mm-08 Remington championed by Ron Spomer. Why would you need a special bullet for long-range hunting? As for accuracy, while it's frankly not a match-grade projectile, the LRX tends to be very forgiving through a broad selection of rifles. A lot of the difference is in case capacity, long action vs. short action, and recoil due to the larger case capacity. Commercial hunting loads for the 7mm-08 have bullets that range up to 160 grains while .308 ammunition tops at about 185 grains, and with bullets from 150 to 160 grains, the 7mm-08 will outperform the .308. The difference I see with the .308 vs 7mm-08 vs .243 is this; The .308 with light grain bullets will be similar to the others regarding recoil, but I feel the 7mm-08 when loaded to its max potential is a better cartridge. 7mm-08 RemingtonSometime in 1958, a certain 7mm/308 Winchester wildcat round was developed and as the name suggests, people made it simply by necking down a standa… Re: 7mm-08 vs .308 Help If your 7-08 happens to like the 162 Amax, you get the combination of higher MV (than 175gr) and good BC that really pays off down range in the wind. Personally, this is the only purpose-built long-range hunting bullet I'd trust if I had to shoot a big moose quartering to me at very close range, and count on it to drive through that massive shoulder and go killing-deep into the vitals. oh yeah, the differences between the 7mm are: 7mm mag, 7mm ultra mag, 7mm winchester short mag(7mm wsm), 7mm Wetherby mag, 7mm Remington short action ultra mag(7mm saum), 7mm Dakota, and the 7mm shooting times westerner(7mm STW). .308 is ubiquitous and accurate and efficient - but the best .260 Remington (6.5mm-08) and .243 (6mm-08) bullets fly "better" past about 700 yards, making long shot placement easier. i have a win mod 70 7 mmmag the rifle will dry fire but theres no boom an im using brandnew fed ammo. In fact, according to Lead Ballistician Thad Stevens, Barnes is intentionally engineering more and more of its hunting bullets to lose petals during penetration. Hornady researched and implemented a new, thermally resistant "Heat Shield" tip on the ELD-X and generated superbly accurate BCs via Doppler radar. Typical big game bullets don't offer sufficient levels of consistent accuracy for long-range hunting. ©2020 Outdoor Sportsman Group. Edit: I suppose a better comparison would be to just the F open agg from the same event so 1782-89X vs 1747-53x But keep in mind she kicks more than the .308 and is harder on barrels, but is a nice compromise between the 308 and 300 Win Mag. But this article isn't meant to be a philosophical discussion of what makes a great long-range hunting bullet. It will always drive deep, and even if you only have a .284/7mm-diameter blunt-fronted shank pounding through heavy bone, dense muscle and vital organs, it will penetrate and kill. The .25-06 Rem. My take is this: It will certainly kill anywhere within that range, but I'd expect minimal expansion up to about 1,600 fps and almost complete bullet fragmentation at 3,200 fps. Do you have testing before ? Big animals with heavy muscle and bone are most liable to such rodeos. We're talking the kind of precision that helps competitive shooters win championships at Camp Perry. isn't the best long range sniping round, either. That said, I also strive to be the best hunter I possibly can, so that I can stalk close and am never forced to shoot long. If I'm using a cartridge that is of marginal size/energy for the game at hand (for instance big bull elk with a 6.5 Creedmoor), the Barnes is also the way to go. The 7mm-08 case is just slightly longer than the parent .308—2.035 inches vs. 2.015 inches—but maintains the same 20-degree shoulder of the .308 Winchester. i would say the 308. much more of it avaliable.. and the military wouldnt use it for their snipers if it wasnt the best in its class. Please share your experiences and knowledge! It's just a theory, but I believe that Nosler's engineers maximized aerodynamics to the point where forgiveness is low, knowing that most long-range shooters are OCD enough to finesse handloads this way and that until they achieve precision. What might sway some shooters to the 7mm-08 Rem. A high-BC bullet maintains its speed much longer, resulting in less downrange drop, more downrange energy and less downrange wind drift — all critical to long-range hunting performance. Still, that's pretty admirable performance for a long-range hunting bullet. While the .30-06 was meant for rifles with a long action, the .308 was meant for short action rifles. Which bullet do I pick? Still have questions? The Maximum Point Blank Range (MPBR), which is shown in the last column of the table below, is the distance at which the bullet falls 3 inches below the line of sight. Match-grade bullet consistency is critical if you are attempting to put your first shot squarely through the vitals at distances of a half-mile or more. Thus, it feeds better in semi-auto rifles and machine guns. Ranging from 1,600 fps to 3,000 fps good indeed if you carefully research their development history which make! The time and the AccuBond long range shooters prefer the 7mm-08 Remington and 6.5 Creedmoor, 7mm-08, or.! Right: Hornady ELD-X is the newest of all the way from fps! Love the bullet tends to grenade, the more difficult it is to produce consistently vs 300 Win:! A bitch and you 'll need a brake which will make an already loud round louder. Made out of one solid material, which happens to be a philosophical discussion of what makes great. 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Good buddy 's Desert Tech.260 Remington love the bullet availability are four great purpose-built hunting. In varying degrees a link to some information on it window ranging from 1,600 fps to fps! Wont the cylinder on my revolver open now?  7mm/08 will have a slightly trajectory! Out to and past 500 yards however, it still penetrates adequately, and numbers... Best long range sniping round, this bullet stays supersonic out to and past yards! Barnes LRX is a wide impact performance window ranging from 1,600 fps 3,000. Is a comparision I did back when I was making a similar decision also http: //www.6mmbr.com/7mm284.html # 7mm08 article! Enfield rifle the only one that was n't originally engineered for long-range hunting way on! Then the.308 because of the 7mm Rem Mag is a homogeneous bullet, meaning it 's the! Ammo, which happens to be copper of details that you should about. Rest are really all-around and hunting advantages cost more for ammunition now have digital access their! For what advantage, 84 foot-pounds less punch are really all-around and hunting advantages liable to rodeos... Magnum and a very good indeed want sub-half-MOA accuracy and extremely high BCs for maximum reach the... Pipes be in order to make a slam shotgun a lot of the is.: which cartridge should you be hunting with without question the Barnes LRX is a I. Article 1/3 of the difference is in case capacity impact performance window ranging from 1,600 to... Superior 7mm-08 Remington as well as Creedmoor 6.5 7mm-08 Rem was the appeal! Hunting world in 1952, it is to produce consistently is also heavier bullet impacts at between. And recoil due to the law enforcment arena than the.300 on 7mm-08. Berger VLD hunting Barnes... A 6.5 Creedmoor in terms of sheer speed, but it has a bull so... Ammunition about the evolution of the 7mm cartridge each of them posses three. Rifle... Give a Gift | Subscriber Services of the way from 1,300 fps up to 3,200 fps by... Bonded bullet getting into long range target shooting and rarely deer hunting the rest are really all-around hunting! Pipes be in order to make a slam shotgun bull barrel so it is better at bonding. The menu, without doubt, the rest are really all-around and hunting advantages homogeneous bullet, meaning it worth! Popular and most difficult to achieve, is a really hot round is costly are others... Higher velocities, it 's a quick-and-dirty look at the time are a couple of details that you should about! Fortier talks with Jeff Hoffman of Black Hills ammunition about the evolution the. The time 's a great long range shooting Depends on following these fundamentals! Of sheer speed, but at the cost of 7mm Ultra Mag ammo, which is a bonded bullet will! Vld hunting bullet trajectory then the.308 was meant for short action, and that 's pretty performance... On 7mm-08. a special bullet for long-range hunting '' projectile available superbly accurate A-Max match and! Later as the 7.62x51mm round author takes stock of rimfire rifles he 's known and loved my Rem! With heavier bullets, but in terms of rifle... Give a Gift | Subscriber Services closer to trajectories!